Possible Reasons for a Bad Gun Season?

[CharlieNY]

I was wondering if anyone else had any opinions on why a lot of us had a bad gun season here in the Southern Zone. I saw very few deer compared to past years, and many hunters in my area had the same experience. When we did see deer, they were small deer which we would not shoot, and they were few and far between. I have thought about this and have some ideas as to why we are seeing less deer during the firearms season. Here are some of my thoughts as to why:

 

1. Return of a large coyote population.

2. Early opening of archery season (Oct. 1).

3. Early crossbow season, 2 weeks before firearms season.

4. Early firearms youth hunt.

5. Too many deer management permits being given out in recent years.

6. Issuing of "deer nuisance" permits.

 

I was wondering if any of you had any thoughts on this. I think some changes will need to be made if we want to experience some good deer hunting in the future. What do you think?

Edited December 8, 2014 by CharlieNY

[greensider]

i have been saying all along there were a ton of acorns in most of ny and the deer did not have to move to feed just like when there are no nuts the squirrels are dead all over the roads when there are a lot animals do not move a lot there were not many deer dead on the roads this fall and i am on the road all day

[SteveB]

5 is the only one that might have a real impact.

[rotorooter23]

Our states "Deer Management Plan" is so far behind other states its not funny. Hunting has become way too political compared to what it use to be in this state.

[hunterman7956]

Poaching should be included in that list also ,I was at Farmers Mkt in Edmonston last week to pick some venison up and a Leo was there dropping off some deer that were poached the night before. Eavesdropped on conversation and local amish were caught with 24 deer in one barn and not far away another amish was found to be in posession of 14 deer. Add to that a local lowlife was heard bragging that he shot 27 deer last season . Even if the totals of these deer were cut in half that is still too many , add to that those that don't get caught and it just might tip the scale into the less deer side.

                                                                                               NOTE THAT THIS IS SECOND HAND INFO WHICH MAY OR MAY NOT BE COMPLETELY ACCURATE  !!

[genesee_mohican]

There are a lot of deer in the area I live and hunt so the population is robust. One thing that stuck out this year: I noticed a big drop off in the amount I deer I saw out in the fields feeding during the fall, bow and gun seasons. Pretty much every deer I saw while hunting was eating acorns and the ground is littered with them here in 8M.  The absence of deer in the fields during daylight hours was pretty odd though.

[Huntscreek]

In my case I had many bucks on trial cam, but a few doe not in normal family groups this was from summer to now. Reasons, most people are not conservationist, The Amish came and the deer population dropped very fast??, As far as hard winters I seen worse and deer would yard up and hunting season would be good after, I have not seen deer yard up here in 3yrs? for 30yrs they yarded in the same place. So did predators hit yards or people I wish I knew. What I do know is every doe got a pass from me this year, hoping the heard evens out or she drops twins. Charlie you are not the only one seeing this drop non hunters and experience hunters are out there and know there area and no deer? I wish I knew the complete answer but I don't. when it was warm people said oh they are not moving, when it was cold oh they are in the thick stuff. I do know this the population is down and that's why there not there!

Edited December 8, 2014 by Huntscreek

[Lawdwaz]

As mentioned, the acorn crop was huge. Amazing how that changes their feeding habits, they just aren't out in the fields like normal years but sure are in the woods and don't move far at all.

[Fletch]

I am still seeing a lot of does it has been a good year but less buck sightings for me

[wildcat junkie]

There are a lot of deer in the area I live and hunt so the population is robust. One thing that stuck out this year: I noticed a big drop off in the amount I deer I saw out in the fields feeding during the fall, bow and gun seasons. Pretty much every deer I saw while hunting was eating acorns and the ground is littered with them here in 8M.  The absence of deer in the fields during daylight hours was pretty odd though.

Widespread abundance of acorns? When that happens in my area the deer are widely scattered & seem scarce.

 

In 2000 I had lots of deer around during spring & late summer. By fall they were very scarce. I did't kill a buck that year. acorns were everywhere.

 

The year before was good & the following year was one the best seasons I had. i think that just because you aren't seeing deer, that doesn't necessarily mean they aren't in the woods somehwere.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I was wondering if anyone else had any opinions on why a lot of us had a bad gun season here in the Southern Zone. I saw very few deer compared to past years, and many hunters in my area had the same experience. When we did see deer, they were small deer which we would not shoot, and they were few and far between. I have thought about this and have some ideas as to why we are seeing less deer during the firearms season. Here are some of my thoughts as to why:

 

1. Return of a large coyote population.

2. Early opening of archery season (Oct. 1).

3. Early crossbow season, 2 weeks before firearms season.

4. Early firearms youth hunt.

5. Too many deer management permits being given out in recent years.

6. Issuing of "deer nuisance" permits.

 

I was wondering if any of you had any thoughts on this. I think some changes will need to be made if we want to experience some good deer hunting in the future. What do you think?

I believe 5 and 6 would be the biggest problem in your area. The yote thing will kill your deer hunting for sure but if there were to many you would not be seeing small deer thats for sure. We had great numbers on our land in 6G,8M and 8H.  There are so many things that can effect numbers and by having enough land to do your management, Not Ny states management hels big time.

I will also say that i drive between Watertown and Mt Morris about every Fri-Sun and i have never seen so many dead deer on the Thruway and #390.                                                                                                                                                                                      

1.Ny's piss poor Mgmt

2 Ny's to long of gun season

3 Ny's failure to have 1 buck a year

4 Ny's failure to have deer harvest check in.

5 Ny failure to have unused tag mail back in.

[sbuff]

Doe permits for sure,sure nys really needs to look at things. In our area its been on a fast decline since 2007

[nyslowhand]

Boy am I glad it's not just me!!! Racking my brain trying to figure out what happened in my area to have none to little deer sightings during the SZ regular season. Seems to be more widespread across the state to be any isolated issue.

 

Had been getting lots of photos of a many deer all summer long. Lot of sightings of does, fawns and smaller bucks during SZ bow season. Once we got closer to Halloween, the bigger, mature bucks were moving around. Mostly still at night, but some during daylight hours. Best of my knowledge, the bulk of the chasing & breeding took place the week before SZ regular season opened. Since then I haven't seen a single deer. Not a lot of hunting pressure around where I hunt either! Had my trail cams out latter than usual this year, until about Thanksgiving. Majority of photos since ~11/15 were during the night, mainly 10PM thru 4AM. Still a lot of fresh tracks around also! They're still around, so it must be something about their behavior that's changed them to become more nocturnal. I tried to blame it on the increased number of coyotes I've gotten photos of this year. Certainly didn't disrupt the deer's behavior during the summer & early fall time frame.

 

Can't wait to see the DEC's harvest report for this year's deer season!!! This has been a single event, so attributing it to hunting pressure by bow hunter, new Xbow season or Youth hunts doesn't seem reasonable, at all!! I've written it off as a weird year!?! Zombies...?

[Renegade Hunter]

I think they are all excuses. There are still deer all over the place where I hunt. A lot of it is private land though. Maybe you are hunting a lot of public land that gets pounded year in and year out? Or maybe you need better hunting tactics.

[irish_redneck]

I saw 10 doe last night. All together. Just appeared out of the farmers uncut corn.

[Renegade Hunter]

Yes, they are all grouped up right now. I sat yesterday morning and didn't see a thing. Pushed some land and had deer running everywhere. Mainly because they are grouped up. If you find one, you'll find a bunch.

[Huntscreek]

I think they are all excuses. There are still deer all over the place where I hunt. A lot of it is private land though. Maybe you are hunting a lot of public land that gets pounded year in and year out? Or maybe you need better hunting tactics.

A) My Family and I have hunted the same land for more than 70yrs, you get to know your deer and patterns. Add trail cams now and the deer are just not there should one change their hunting tactics to hunt what's not there but for 70yrs have always been. If that's your answer You assume a lot, even on state land that's around private property here is always was good hunting. I use to be able to bow hunt right during Gun season and still see a lot of deer until a arrowed a big one. I did not go deer less but  things were bad you assume so much is a stretch, many very good hunters out there this year same results seeing less, seeing none, that's is a problem. Excuses these men don't make excuse nor do I, its a problem in some areas your thinking more like NYS DEC deer management, that's excuses. As far as nut crop it your hunting a very good area with the wind right and you killed deer there before and for 2mos 2 deer on 10 cams??? My friend change tactics and you know what same results, I changed tactics and you know what same results?? Oh mighty Renegade hunter please advise us ALL that according to you are making excuses, about the poor population or don't hunt right.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I hear this stuff every year, and I knew that crossbows and the youth season would be blamed. I will wait to see the harvest numbers for the youth season, but I would go so far as to guarantee that they are pretty low, so you are barking up the wrong tree. Blaming crossbows is just another attack on archery hunting, and I dont get it. Crossbows are fairly easy to use, so get one, learn the woodsmanship skills to get close enough and join the party. Nusiance permits, you can see the numbers of those harvests each year, and they are insignificant. DMPs, well, NY wants to lower deer numbers, and they can only manage to a certain point. After that, its up to you. If you believe deer numbers are low in your specific area, lay off the does for a couple of years. Just because you have tags, doesnt meant you have to fill them. Coyotes? Go trap/hunt them.

 

I have to agree with FSW on a couple of things, 1 buck a year, and mandatory reporting (dont need to mail them back, just go online and report them as unused) of ALL tags before you can purchase your lisence for the next season.

 

BTW, deer patterns can change on a property. We see it all the time on our farms. Oh, and you mentioned trail cams, maybe you need to consider the additional pressure you are putting on the deer with them. Everytime you check them, its pressure. If they are not set up high, or are not true black flash, they will spook deer and add pressure to them. You have to be careful about trail cam use.

[growalot]

You've seen the pics and heard me talk about all the doe and fawn this summer...so a lack of here not the case....You also heard about the lack of any day time sightings...now I have 200 red oak and yes they hit them hard...and during the day ..BUT you also heard me talk about the 1 until.... night time shooting that started at velvet drop happens every year...gee don't believe coon season is open then....hhhmmmm

Then you heard me talk about the new farm practices...leaving standing corn and killing off clover fields for corn next year...they moved

 

Then there is the buck fawn to doe fawn ratio's...say what you will but I keep and eye on it...more buck fawn by far than doe????

 

Last the doe never herded up nor even came in to pick up their fawns in late afternoon as usual.

 

Also 100 acres next door few hunters...no doe allowed  only wall hangers allowed and they refused to hunt much at all due to pushing deer to the brown down guys on the 50 acres behind them and 100 acres to their north east....But killing of all the clover...killed us this year...corn will next year farm practices...I will have alfalfa clover in this spring....more bedding and more plot area

Edited December 8, 2014 by growalot

[Lawdwaz]

One farm I hunt in Lima is 250 acres; about 200 fields and 50 hardwoods/creekbottom combined.  The place is FILTHY with coyotes.

 

We see them all the time but rarely get a shot.  A local trapper gets some but there are still a ton of them AND a ton of deer.  Coyotes get plenty of fawns in the spring but I don't think they are doing THAT good of a job in lowering the population.

 

I try and do my part...........are YOU? 

 

[nyslowhand]

Best I can, two so far!

[BKhunter]

I usually see a coyote or two each season and take them out if I have a shot, but this year I didn't see any. I plan on doing a little predator hunting this year to see if I can call them in. I do think that the harsh winter last year played a part. We did see deer this year, just nothing with a nice rack. Large Mature does were few and far between, but I know they are out there along with the mature bucks. We would see big bodied deer in the fields while getting back to our cars with very little light left. I was also an area where no one was aloud to hunt. I think the deer patterned us hahaha.

[Pygmy]

The pattern seems the same, considering what I observed, what my local friends observed and what lots of members on this forum observed.

VERY little deer movement during daylight hours after the first weekend.

I blame it on the tremendous acorn crop plus lack of snow cover. The deer don't need to move. They bed in the thick stuff and when they get hungry all they have to do is stand up and gorge themselves on acorns.

If they venture out of thier secure bedding cover to feed in fields, they do it at night.

[mmkay]

Bow season I saw lots of does. took one. Gun season I hunted at least 10 days and saw lots of other hunters but only two does. My issue was quality of the land I hunted. I lost access to good farms and had to hunt state land. Lots of state land, but it needs to be logged. Not many deer living mature hardwoods, when farms with managed woods lots are near by. However, I have taken a few nice bucks off of the local state land....it's just harder than private farms

I actually had a guy sit under my tree stand on opening day with me 30 feet above him. he told me that it was a good spot and that he wanted to hunt it. He stayed there for a 1/2 hr knowing I was right above him.

All in all on opening day I had 8 pumpkins walk by within 200 yrds all before 10am. I walked in on a logging road at 4:30 am (2 miles). These fools drove atv's up the same logging road at 6am.

So in my area the following would help

- log the state land

- keep atv's off state land

- provide farmers incetives to allow hunters. most farms (200 ac or so) my way get leased by by small groups for about about $10K+ per year. I can't blame the farmer when he's paing close to $30K in taxes

[Culvercreek hunt club]

5 is the only one that might have a real impact.

Or 6 for a local decrease in population.