Why do you go for bigger bucks?

[ATbuckhunter]

I forgot to say that when it comes to bucks I can get pretty picky with them. Im more than happy with going with out harvesting a buck so I let almost all of the bucks i see go because they don't have what Im looking for. My goal is to only harvest mature bucks, but ill shot a 2 1/2 year old if he's got something going on. Although pretty much any doe that walks in front of me is in trouble as long as I have a tag and want to take one...that includes fawns as well. Couldn't care less if people don't like it...that means more fawns for me haha. 

[chrisw]

Thanks for starting this thread, this seems to be a very heated subject- I love it ! 

I can't believe how defensives some guys are getting, and how many names I have been called. My prediction is is you're hating on my comments you are a FAWN KILLER hah

Once again I am going to state my point- I seen first hand opening day last year, some  S.O.B.  pulling out a deer 1 handed, said he couldn't tell how small it was until he got up to it. That is unacceptable to me, no excuses ! 

People keep commenting about rack sizes, you can't eat racks blah blah blah - my point is its not that hard to harvest a MATURE buck or doe. Guess what ?!? You get even MORE MEAT. If that is so important to you, only makes sense to shoot a bigger more mature animal.

If you want to be the man known as a yearling killer, and fill up half a grocery bag full of meat, good luck with that. I will continue judging with disappointment ! LET THEM GROW !
 

Why don't you give all of us fawn killers an idea of what a "mature" deer is to you... Oh and feel free to show us pics of all of these mature deer you've harvested. I too hunt and run a lot of cameras on state land in 7F, 6K, 7M and 7A and I can tell you if you're waiting for only "mature" bucks then you'll be going seasons without deer often. Hell I consider a "mature" deer 4yrs + and I get few and far between on cameras, some years none, and I run 5 cameras year round...

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[YFKI1983]

I think it all depends on where you hunt. Until a few years ago I would shoot the first deer I saw because I knew there was almost no chance I would see one again. Now I'm a little more choosy because I'm trying to bag my first nice buck (by nice I mean wall hanger, I've killed spikes, 3,4 and 5 pt.). And since antler restrictions have come into play and I started doing a food plot I am seeing big deer on camera so I try and hold out.

Shooting a smaller deer doesn't mean it's easy. There have been years where with 4 hunters only 1 of us would see a deer on my property. And any kill with a bow is impressive to me.

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[LJC]

46 minutes ago, Hang Em High said:

Thanks for starting this thread, this seems to be a very heated subject- I love it ! 

I can't believe how defensives some guys are getting, and how many names I have been called. My prediction is is you're hating on my comments you are a FAWN KILLER hah

Once again I am going to state my point- I seen first hand opening day last year, some  S.O.B.  pulling out a deer 1 handed, said he couldn't tell how small it was until he got up to it. That is unacceptable to me, no excuses ! 

People keep commenting about rack sizes, you can't eat racks blah blah blah - my point is its not that hard to harvest a MATURE buck or doe. Guess what ?!? You get even MORE MEAT. If that is so important to you, only makes sense to shoot a bigger more mature animal.

If you want to be the man known as a yearling killer, and fill up half a grocery bag full of meat, good luck with that. I will continue judging with disappointment ! LET THEM GROW !
 

Never killed a fawn just simple telling you that just because in your area which I don't believe you btw . 

But just because in your area there are you see so many deer . That you can pick and choose.  

 

 

That is not the norm in most of new york state  after opening weekend of gun season  good luck seeing a deer again .  And that is  why people shoot what they can . you sure you were in  NJ and not NY  or maybe a deer farm . 

Because it's highly unlikely you shot 9 for 9 ,   6 or better point bucks on state land that there is public access to .

Do you want to clarify yourself . maybe like you have property that borders state land that people can't access .  What's the name of the state land  that you hunt on .

[chrisw]

If this guy (hang em high) is shooting 6 points then he isn't killing mature deer, anyone trying to kill mature deer doesn't look for a set amount of points, they judge from the body characteristics. He's just another keyboard commando who watches too much Drury Brothers on tv... I too can kill 6 pts every year on state land, I typically choose not to as I would like to cross paths with them again in the future, but I also don't belittle guys who are happy with said buck.

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[growalot]

^^^^like

[Doc]

I hunt in one of those areas where the DEC doesn't want you to be picky. We've got too many deer, and anyone who holds out for a trophy is considered scum. The word is, "shoot every antlerless deer that you see". They are to be considered vermin and if you are a trophy hunter, you are some kind of anti-conservation creep that refuses to do your part for the environment. Of course that is only their attitude if you are a bowhunter.

 

Lol .... I am over-exaggerating, of course. But I do get the impression that they don't want to hear about this waiting for the "big one" stuff. Not in this WMU anyway.

 

[stoneam2006]

I hunt in one of those areas where the DEC doesn't want you to be picky. We've got too many deer, and anyone who holds out for a trophy is considered scum. The word is, "shoot every antlerless deer that you see". They are to be considered vermin and if you are a trophy hunter, you are some kind of anti-conservation creep that refuses to do your part for the environment. Of course that is only their attitude if you are a bowhunter.
 
Lol .... I am over-exaggerating, of course. But I do get the impression that they don't want to hear about this waiting for the "big one" stuff. Not in this WMU anyway.
 

That's another very good point...some areas need any and all tags full even if is a Lil one to try and help the herd and stop the state from taking worse actions to get them killed

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[LJC]

7 minutes ago, Doc said:

I hunt in one of those areas where the DEC doesn't want you to be picky. We've got too many deer, and anyone who holds out for a trophy is considered scum. The word is, "shoot every antlerless deer that you see". They are to be considered vermin and if you are a trophy hunter, you are some kind of anti-conservation creep that refuses to do your part for the environment. Of course that is only their attitude if you are a bowhunter.

 

Lol .... I am over-exaggerating, of course. But I do get the impression that they don't want to hear about this waiting for the "big one" stuff. Not in this WMU anyway.

 

Yea there are parks I know of near me that you have to take a doe first before your aloud to shoot a buck . It's bow only you can't hunt from the ground you have to hunt so  many hour a week or they will not let you back and they make you take a shooting test  at 30 yard 4 oUT of 5 arrows have to hit 9 inch target to qualify .

[SteveB]

8 hours ago, Hang Em High said:

 

People keep commenting about rack sizes, you can't eat racks blah blah blah - my point is its not that hard to harvest a MATURE buck or doe. Guess what ?!? You get even MORE MEAT. If that is so important to you, only makes sense to shoot a bigger more mature animal.

 
 

Simple question - what is a mature buck? I am the 2nd to ask.

 

[Buckmaster7600]

Thanks for starting this thread, this seems to be a very heated subject- I love it ! 

I can't believe how defensives some guys are getting, and how many names I have been called. My prediction is is you're hating on my comments you are a FAWN KILLER hah

Once again I am going to state my point- I seen first hand opening day last year, some  S.O.B.  pulling out a deer 1 handed, said he couldn't tell how small it was until he got up to it. That is unacceptable to me, no excuses ! 

People keep commenting about rack sizes, you can't eat racks blah blah blah - my point is its not that hard to harvest a MATURE buck or doe. Guess what ?!? You get even MORE MEAT. If that is so important to you, only makes sense to shoot a bigger more mature animal.

If you want to be the man known as a yearling killer, and fill up half a grocery bag full of meat, good luck with that. I will continue judging with disappointment ! LET THEM GROW !
 

It's easy for you to kill mature deer with that regularity because you're a ranger, with your far above average skill levels and advanced training coupled with your combat experience in high stress situations you should be after Grizzlies armed with nothing more than an MRE spoon not some poor defenseless deer even if you only target mature ones.


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[BizCT]

Thanks for starting this thread, this seems to be a very heated subject- I love it ! 

I can't believe how defensives some guys are getting, and how many names I have been called. My prediction is is you're hating on my comments you are a FAWN KILLER hah

Once again I am going to state my point- I seen first hand opening day last year, some  S.O.B.  pulling out a deer 1 handed, said he couldn't tell how small it was until he got up to it. That is unacceptable to me, no excuses ! 

People keep commenting about rack sizes, you can't eat racks blah blah blah - my point is its not that hard to harvest a MATURE buck or doe. Guess what ?!? You get even MORE MEAT. If that is so important to you, only makes sense to shoot a bigger more mature animal.

If you want to be the man known as a yearling killer, and fill up half a grocery bag full of meat, good luck with that. I will continue judging with disappointment ! LET THEM GROW !
 

Let's see pics of your mature bucks. Don't bother cheating because I will reverse google image you!


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[LET EM GROW]

First off ill just say, i love being in the outdoors and witnessing the woods wake up and shut down at the beginning and end of each day. That being said we manage our property in 8P along with many of my neighbors, for healthier deer, better buck to doe numbers, more mature bucks, food plots, sanctuaries etc.. Ive shot plenty of deer, from tiny to quite big in my 16 years of hunting and just dont feel the urge to harvest any younger deer anymore.

Now i will never judge anyone for what they harvest ever, we all have different lives and different circumstances, pay taxes and what not, most of us work and or have worked for a living to provide for our families and i completely respect that.

But I do my best to pattern and gain history with deer and let my wife try and harvest the first deer or two of the season before myself. I dont ever want to shoot a deer and not consume it, i cant justify shooting a deer to not eat it or make use of it in any way unless the animal went to the less fortunate. If my wife doesnt harvest anything 1/2 way thru season, i will take any good size doe i have a tag for. Buck criteria wise for me he has to be atleast 3.5 no matter where i hunt,  4.5yrs+ on our managed properties in 8P. and 3.5+ on my family farm in 8F(not so managed)

 

I would much rather let the animal grow(hence the name) and attempt a harvest when they mature.. 

[Jason118]

Hunt what makes you happy. We go through transitions I think over the years and what our hunting area holds. I waited 2yrs and passed many for a shot during bow for another wall hanger but I also know we hold a lot of deer and such deer. The intimacy of hunting specific deer, ones intelligent enough to grow pudgy like some of us with age , getting him within bow range and being able to close the deal is what makes me tick the last few years. Everyone's situation , from time and property to dinner table to the wall is diffrent ~ so do what makes you happy

[GreeneHunter]

On opening day if I have a DMP in hand I shoot the first 50 Pounds or more of Venison that happens to stroll  by !  After that I will try and fill my Buck tag , if I am in an AR area so be it !  If not the next 50 pounds or more of Venison with horns that strolls by get shot !  No spots though , gotta hold the line somewhere ! 

[turkeyfeathers]

55 minutes ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

 

 

Let's see pics of your mature bucks. Don't bother cheating because I will reverse google image you!


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I was also ready to reverse Google image ! lol

[grampy]

We all hunt for different reasons and on different lands. All pay the same price for our tags. And I truthfully believe that "ANY DEER" is a trophy. That being said I like to shoot a nice fat doe every year for the freezer. And hold out for a decent buck. I can't really explain what a  a "decent" buck is. But I'll know it when I see him!! And it may even change from year to year. No such thing as a "bad" deer! So shoot whatever you like and enjoy hunting, along with all the wonderful things that go with being in the woods. The greatest reward is just being out there.

[Rebel Darling]

Thanks for this thread.  I have been thinking on this point for a while.  My first harvested deer was a button buck, and I think the two of us were the dumbest animals in the woods that day.  I struggled with that harvest for a while, having only realized that it was a button buck after tracking him.

As a new hunter (this is my second bow season, and third season total), I am still developing my personal harvest criteria.  I imagine that my criteria will change as I continue to gain hunting knowledge and experience.  I have not had the fortune of having a mentor, but I can say without a doubt that I have benefited from many on this site who have shared their views and experiences on a variety of subjects.  But when the moment comes to choose to kill, or to pass, I have not had anyone with me to guide my judgement. 

This year, I've been fortunate to have time to spend in the woods which gave me the confidence to pass on a doe fawn.  The next morning, I harvested a mature doe I had been patterning from a different stand, which yielded more meat.  However, if the day I saw the fawn was my only chance to be in the woods, I would have harvested that fawn.  I hunt for food.

I recently finished David Peterson's "Heartsblood: Hunting, Spirituality, and Wildness in America."  He included a chapter titled "Bambi Must Die" in which he describes the regret he initially felt after harvesting a very young mule deer.  After an internal debate, and conversations with wildlife biologists, he decided that harvesting young animals is more of a social taboo than a herd management issue. 

According to the book, and I'm inclined to think this way, fawns have less of a chance of survival than an older deer that has already proven itself through at least one winter.  I think Wooly posted some pics on another thread of fawns who succumbed to winter kill.  I'm sure some of them starved to death.  These viewpoints helped me work through my button buck harvest.

Another issue the book raised is natural predator selection, specifically meaning that natural predators such as coyotes, or mountain lions, or bears, etc., tend to kill the young, inexperienced deer, or sick, or wounded deer, thus improving the overall health of the deer in the area.  This raises an interesting point in my mind about what we humans do when we harvest the top genes and experience in the area.  Is our sense of accomplishment at having out-smarted an experienced animal taking priority over maintaining the healthiest, and strongest genes possible in the deer herd?  Over the long-term, are we harming the herd?

I don't know the answer, and I imagine that it lies somewhere in between and influenced by many points of view, but I can say that after having read Peterson's debate and subsequent realizations, I have no issue with harvesting a fawn if the opportunity presents itself, and the time is right for me.  At the moment, I'm thinking that if enough hunters employ a variety of harvest criteria, the deer should be fine over the long-run.  But if all hunters took fawns, or all hunters focused in on large racked bucks all the time, the deer population would be in trouble over the long-run.

I've not yet come across a mature buck while hunting, but my accumulating experience and knowledge are leading me in that direction.  I hope to see one.  Maybe I'll pull on the bow.  Maybe I'll let it pass.  From what I've read, he won't taste nearly as good as that button buck did.

Edited October 24, 2016 by Rebel Darling
Grammar

[Paula]

Just make sure you shoot what is legal. Be safe, have fun and enjoy being outside

[YFKI1983]

Simple question - what is a mature buck? I am the 2nd to ask.
 

One that doesn't attack people online for no reason

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[CFHunter]

10 hours ago, chrisw said:

If this guy (hang em high) is shooting 6 points then he isn't killing mature deer, anyone trying to kill mature deer doesn't look for a set amount of points, they judge from the body characteristics. He's just another keyboard commando who watches too much Drury Brothers on tv... I too can kill 6 pts every year on state land, I typically choose not to as I would like to cross paths with them again in the future, but I also don't belittle guys who are happy with said buck.

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This right here is the perfect statement in regards to Hang EM High's comments on the other thread. Most likely, those "mature" 6 points are the same age as the deer ELMO took. 1.5 years. He contradicts his own argument right there.

 

As for me, I want to try and get a healthier herd in my area. I will shoot any doe I see, as our buck to doe ratio is waaaay out of wack. We have way to many doe having twins and triplets. I have seen over the last 5 years the number of nice bucks seen dropping. This year, between all of the neighbors, we only have a couple of nice bucks on camera. We are even seeing less youngsters out there. I have not shot a buck that past two years, and I may be buckless again this year. If the buck numbers start coming back up. I will go back to shooting what feels right at the time of the hunt. If I am stalking a 1.5 year old buck in an open field, I will probably shoot is, as stalking any whitetail in an open field is a trophy to me. If I am sitting on a run that I know a big buck uses, and a 1.5 year old comes in and I cannot even scare it away, I will more than likely pass it up. For me, it all depends on the situation. I am out there for the experiance, not the "trophy".

[fasteddie]

At my age , I am not waiting . The deer I have seen are at a distance . If one gets close enough I will take the shot . 

[ApexerER]

I think one of the cool things about deer hunting is everyone has an opinion and a little bit different way of doing things. We all enjoy being in the woods, so that right there should be common ground for all of us. My opinion on what will make me happy has changed just this season. Even though I hunted with my dad for about 10 years he wasn't a mentor for the woods. He was a guy that enjoyed hunting camp and would go out and sit on a stump for a couple of hours after breakfast. (I loved hunting camp) I tried to take hunting more seriously than the guys at camp did but I had no idea what I was doing. Since my Dad (retired from hunting) I have learned a lot. It took me a lot of years being in the woods before I killed my first buck. It was a 4pt and I was so proud that I finally did it that I seriously thought about getting it mounted. That was only a few years ago. DMP's were hard to come by and I didn't hunt with a bow. I think it was the following year that I killed another 4 pt on the last day of the season and I started thinking, WOW....20+ years hunting and two deer in a row...I was really excited..It got me excited enough that I purchased a bow, and started practicing, took the course and started bow hunting. My first year bow hunting I saw more deer than I ever have in my life including a few bucks but none were close enough to sling an arrow. This got me even more excited. Last year I harvested a big doe with the bow and that was awesome. Then I was able to get a 5pt with the bow (both posted in last years archery thread) and that was even more awesome. Not only was it the biggest deer I have ever gotten but I got it with a bow!. Then on opening day of rifle last year, at about 7:30 in the morning, I had a big 4 pt come in...He was really close (within bow range) and I decided to let him walk. I sat there and pondered the fact that I just let a deer walk that I would have been jumping up and down in my stand if I had gotten him only a few years ago. I was rewarded for letting that deer walk by shooting the 8pt in my avatar around 4pm that afternoon. When I walked over to that deer that I dropped in its tracks, I looked up and thanked god (and I am not very religious) and I had to keep myself from crying. That deer now hangs on the wall in my family room. It is also a deer that some people on this forum would have let walk and see what he became next year.  So far this bow season, I have let a fat momma doe walk twice because she has a fawn with her. I let another doe go because it was a lone deer and I was having a very difficult time judging size (I know some people say it is easy) and I was pretty sure it was the fawn that I had been seeing with the mother. I have seen a 4pt and a 3pt from my stand and even though I didn't get a shot I wouldn't have taken them. I am just getting incredible enjoyment out of seeing them. I am not sure what exactly will make me happy now....I know a lone doe that I can tell is a large deer will get an arrow or .308 round. Any bucks I see will be a game time split second decision for me now....I guess what I am saying is...nobodys opinion is wrong and ideas can change....When I see a thread of a deer kill, I just hope no matter what size that deer is that the person is as excited about it as I am when I get one....

[dbHunterNY]

my situation is unique like everyone else's so her it is.....
I've grown up hunting family farms, including my immediate family's.  various stuff still made hunting difficult, but always have been able to pass deer. probably from dad as we both enjoyed sitting and just watching deer.  if we shot something the hunt and outing was basically over.  I've shot yearling bucks in the past to fill freezer.  I've shot a spike on public land just to make some memories with my cousins and brother.  usually just held out for the top few bucks known to be in the area though.  countless hours watching deer also served as scouting in hindsight.  by the time I graduated I had lots of 2.5 yr old racks mounted on a plaque. fast forward to now at 33 I'm one of two primary individuals running an 11,000+ acre QDM co-op and are a part of deer orgs.  most of my efforts and any spare vacation time are to help others hunting.  here in NY there's always somewhere doe harvest is needed that can also fill my freezer, and a doe fawn just doesn't serve that purpose the same.  been to full draw on lots of little bucks this season well within my wheel house, including a stalked stud of a 2.5 year old that far met co-op antler restrictions.  I fully think I could've took that deer, but it'd mean a lot more to other hunters on the property.  for a bunch of them it's bigger than any buck they've gotten, especially the youth hunters.  what I believe to be 3.5+ yrs old is what trips my trigger for certain reasons as a hunter, a local with realistic expectations, and deer manager/bio junky.  I've had my heart race this year with encounters coupled with anticipation, then let those deer walk for different reasons.  hopefully those deer give other hunter(s) similar experience before they die.  doesn't matter if I hike miles and elevation further north or have a different weapon in my hands.  recurve bow or beanfield rifle on a pod my shooters for me (buck or doe) don't change much anymore.  I still seem to get out of it what I want for me, so for now I've stayed the course.

[Zag]

13 hours ago, Hang Em High said:

Thanks for starting this thread, this seems to be a very heated subject- I love it ! 

I can't believe how defensives some guys are getting, and how many names I have been called. My prediction is is you're hating on my comments you are a FAWN KILLER hah

Once again I am going to state my point- I seen first hand opening day last year, some  S.O.B.  pulling out a deer 1 handed, said he couldn't tell how small it was until he got up to it. That is unacceptable to me, no excuses ! 

People keep commenting about rack sizes, you can't eat racks blah blah blah - my point is its not that hard to harvest a MATURE buck or doe. Guess what ?!? You get even MORE MEAT. If that is so important to you, only makes sense to shoot a bigger more mature animal.

If you want to be the man known as a yearling killer, and fill up half a grocery bag full of meat, good luck with that. I will continue judging with disappointment ! LET THEM GROW !
 

First off, I don't shoot fawns or small bucks. Second off I don't give a flying f@&# what anyone else chooses to shoot and nor am I going to judge someone. It's a free freaking country my man.